“Proxy wars yes, because it did fight a proxy war. But now the proxy war is being fought for America. Earlier, it was against the Soviets and that was a great achievement. I can assure you that at that time, even the army chief did not know what was going on. I was heading the ISI and it was kept under wraps because we didn’t want the Russians to get alarmed. But now the Americans want the ISI to win the war for them again in Afghanistan but they don’t realise that the conditions are totally different.”
(August 02, New Delhi, Sri Lanka Guardian) Former ISI chief Lt Gen Hamid Gul tells Harinder Baweja that the government attempted to please the US but ended up with egg on its face.
The government tried to bring the ISI under civilian control. Was it their way of saying, no more proxy wars?
No. They were trying to take a gift to the Americans because they had nothing to offer. They have no control over the tribal areas and were trying to strike deals with the militia, which the US did not like. Under pressure from the Americans, they now have to backtrack on these deals and so the problems have redoubled. You can’t play such games with the tribesmen in the Frontier. You either stick to the deal or you pay a price. The PM wanted to win the goodwill of the Americans. I don’t know why you Indians are also getting into a strategic pact with the US. You will pay a price, I can assure you.
If they wanted to please the US, then why was the notification cancelled within a few hours?
It was a bit of a gimmick. The internal pressure was too much. The army was up in arms. Even Pervez Musharraf said this is not on and I’m sure the DG ISI must have spoken to the president. Let me tell you, as a former ISI chief, that the agency is already under civilian control. The bulk of the manpower is drawn from the three forces. It is a very unique organisation and I remember that when I was heading it in 1989, all the three service chiefs in India went to Rajiv Gandhi to request him to have something like the ISI. There is a political cell, under the charter of the ISI. That political cell was included under Zulfikar Ali Bhutto’s order. The ISI has always been saying, please take this away from us. But Benazir shot it down. If they had scrapped that cell, nobody would have objected, but they tried to place it under the ministry of interior — a police force — and that would have been tantamount to politicising the ISI.
Why should the ISI be a law unto itself? It is seen as being more powerful than a civilian government.
No. The army is more powerful than the civilian government. There is a problem only when the government starts making mistakes because whether you like it or not, the military is a very strong institution. The ISI is the most disciplined organisation.
Not many will agree with you on the ISI being disciplined. It is known for its proxy wars.
Proxy wars yes, because it did fight a proxy war. But now the proxy war is being fought for America. Earlier, it was against the Soviets and that was a great achievement. I can assure you that at that time, even the army chief did not know what was going on. I was heading the ISI and it was kept under wraps because we didn’t want the Russians to get alarmed. But now the Americans want the ISI to win the war for them again in Afghanistan but they don’t realise that the conditions are totally different.
Why would it then not be in the interest of the Americans to have the ISI under civilian control? President Musharraf is surviving with American help.
How can it be a strategic intelligence-gathering agency for the defence services if you place it under the interior ministry? The ISI provides the first line of defence and if you allow it to degenerate, where will you create another organisation like this? The government learnt not to mess with the ISI. Childish and impetuous as they are, they went ahead and within hours, had to cancel the notification. They ended up with egg on their face.
- Sri Lanka Guardian
(August 02, New Delhi, Sri Lanka Guardian) Former ISI chief Lt Gen Hamid Gul tells Harinder Baweja that the government attempted to please the US but ended up with egg on its face.
The government tried to bring the ISI under civilian control. Was it their way of saying, no more proxy wars?
No. They were trying to take a gift to the Americans because they had nothing to offer. They have no control over the tribal areas and were trying to strike deals with the militia, which the US did not like. Under pressure from the Americans, they now have to backtrack on these deals and so the problems have redoubled. You can’t play such games with the tribesmen in the Frontier. You either stick to the deal or you pay a price. The PM wanted to win the goodwill of the Americans. I don’t know why you Indians are also getting into a strategic pact with the US. You will pay a price, I can assure you.
If they wanted to please the US, then why was the notification cancelled within a few hours?
It was a bit of a gimmick. The internal pressure was too much. The army was up in arms. Even Pervez Musharraf said this is not on and I’m sure the DG ISI must have spoken to the president. Let me tell you, as a former ISI chief, that the agency is already under civilian control. The bulk of the manpower is drawn from the three forces. It is a very unique organisation and I remember that when I was heading it in 1989, all the three service chiefs in India went to Rajiv Gandhi to request him to have something like the ISI. There is a political cell, under the charter of the ISI. That political cell was included under Zulfikar Ali Bhutto’s order. The ISI has always been saying, please take this away from us. But Benazir shot it down. If they had scrapped that cell, nobody would have objected, but they tried to place it under the ministry of interior — a police force — and that would have been tantamount to politicising the ISI.
Why should the ISI be a law unto itself? It is seen as being more powerful than a civilian government.
No. The army is more powerful than the civilian government. There is a problem only when the government starts making mistakes because whether you like it or not, the military is a very strong institution. The ISI is the most disciplined organisation.
Not many will agree with you on the ISI being disciplined. It is known for its proxy wars.
Proxy wars yes, because it did fight a proxy war. But now the proxy war is being fought for America. Earlier, it was against the Soviets and that was a great achievement. I can assure you that at that time, even the army chief did not know what was going on. I was heading the ISI and it was kept under wraps because we didn’t want the Russians to get alarmed. But now the Americans want the ISI to win the war for them again in Afghanistan but they don’t realise that the conditions are totally different.
Why would it then not be in the interest of the Americans to have the ISI under civilian control? President Musharraf is surviving with American help.
How can it be a strategic intelligence-gathering agency for the defence services if you place it under the interior ministry? The ISI provides the first line of defence and if you allow it to degenerate, where will you create another organisation like this? The government learnt not to mess with the ISI. Childish and impetuous as they are, they went ahead and within hours, had to cancel the notification. They ended up with egg on their face.
- Sri Lanka Guardian
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